Chelsea Banter Archive June 06 2014

06 Jun 2014 16:09:56
A lot of people seek to be saying that if we do sign Cesc we may not be defensive enough in midfield which I have to strongly disagree with. I would prefer to see a more stable 4-3-3 next season but I believe fabregas or Oscar could play in a two man midfield. I, would personally like to see a 3 of Fabregas - Matic - Oscar which in my opinion is world class. For people who say were not defensive enough need to realise how Bayern, barca and Madrid play and with them 3 I think our midfield is stronger. At barca you have Xavi - Busquets - Iniesta, when you look at ours Matic IMO is way better than Busquets and I think Fabregas and Oscar are more physical, better worker and harder tacklers than Xavi or Iniesta so I seem to wonder why people wouldn't be happy with that. Even looking at Bayern they will play either Lahm or Martinez holding with normally Schweinsteiger and/or Kroos/Thiago either side and our potential midfield 3 is stronger in my opinion. Madrid play Xabi and Modric holding when both are not well known for being massively physical players. Mourinho won't go out and play defensive football next season I don't think he will be allowed. I also feel a midfield 3 of Fabregas - Matic - Oscar has a great balance to it not to mention having Ramires, Van Ginkel on the bench who are both better suited to a 4-3-3. We don't have Luiz anymore as backup for Matic in defensive mid maybe Ake/Chalobah will be back up? Or even Tiago signed for a season.

06 Jun 2014 17:50:37
Busquets is just as good as Matic in his own right. To say Matic is "way" better is wrong. Matic is physically better, but Busquets is technically better. Both are just as good defensively. 50-50 for me. Agree with your other points tho. Think a midfield of them 3 is 2 words World Class or is it 1 word. :)

06 Jun 2014 22:25:22
Just because we have been playing with two central midfielders doesn't mean they both need to be completely solid defensive mids. For this formation to work with wingers and number 10 or whatever, u need the passer from deep, the spark. Mikel and matic together no thanks. More like khedir and modric or schweinsteiger and kroos. Would be no good having 2 mikels.

Blueboy it is no good having one mikel!

06 Jun 2014 15:35:45
My problem with the fabregas signing and I feel many people share this opinion is that he isn't really needed and it would be more of a luxury purchase combined with the fact that there are better options. To start off I think you need to assess where we need to strengthen and that's at striker (done), left back, and centre midfield. He doesn't fit into a centre mid role as he's poor physically (small and slow) and his work rate is pretty poor (despite people giving him the benefit of the doubt because he plays for barca). However the player that does fit that role would be Paul pogba and Ed has said that juve will have to sell him or Vidal and they have a strong preference to sell pogba between the two. When you look at competition barca seems to favor rakitic, real has bigger priorities and would need to find it mainly with player exchange (but juve need the money), and psg have to make a bunch of sales to balance the Luiz purchase and this would almost be impossible to balance. Then you look at left back and were told that the club don't want to purchase shaw because of the price but were willing to drop 30m on a luxury player. I could go round and round as to why paying the money for shaw is the smart move but that's not the point. If Oscar got sold then that would fit cescs role more but there are better options for that like Reus or greizmann and pushing Willian or hazard central not to mention piazon. I just think the issue isn't with fabregas as a player but more that there's bigger needs that are being sacrificed to get this deal.

What a load of rubbish.
Cesc played around 250 games for arsenal in a centre mid role and was 1 of the best attacking centre mids in the league.
He can easily play in a 2 next to matic, as the box to box, he doesn't hold on to the ball to long and always looking to go fwd. also got a goal in him.
He can also play in a 3 man midfield.
Can also play in the number 10 role if the others ain't doing it.
Quality player.
Don't understand why Jose isn't in for Luke shaw tho.
He's a must for us in lots of ways.
I personally think Jose can only do it with seasoned players, hasn't got the paitence to bring any kids through.

06 Jun 2014 16:35:19
Varane was hardly seasoned when Jose gave him a chance.

I'm sure Jose would love Shaw Cfcmatt, and we agreed a few for Moreno but pulled out for some reason. That goes to show that Jose doesn't need ready made players. With regards to Shaw the club don't feel he's worth £30m, JM can't help that.
The whole thing about JM only being able to do it with seasoned players is BS to me. He hasn't been at any club long enough for him to do so. His objective at most the clubs he's been at, is to win as much as possible in a short amount of time.

{Ed002's Note - With Shaw, Chelsea don't think he is worth the price Southampton quoted in January. I have no idea where you get £30M from.}

06 Jun 2014 16:58:53
If u don't mind pls, how much was been quoted then in January?

{Ed002's Note - I have no interest in discussing money.}

06 Jun 2014 17:00:31
Ed couldn't let it go. Guys if there is one thing i've learnt on here. Don't talk about money! Its Evil! :)

06 Jun 2014 18:34:49
I'm not saying he couldn't fill some of those slots, rather that there are better (sometimes far better) options than him depending on the role were looking to fill. If you think he can be the box to box mid in a midfield two without us making drastic changes to our playing style then I completely disagree and won't argue as it would be a waste of time. You're saying that you would replace ramires running with fabregas. The only way he works for me is if we go to a midfield three and oscar wouldve had to be sold. He doesn't cover enough ground for a double pivot.

Tk I think he could fit in a midfield 2 against lower end opposition. When we don't necessarily need two holding players.

Sorry ed. I'd just meant that the club didn't think he was worth the price quoted by Soton. The £30m came from speculation in the media and what TK said. My point more being that our interest in Shaw/Moreno shows that JM isn't just interested in players already at their peak.

06 Jun 2014 08:00:20
This may be long, but wanted to put my thought process forwards. Forgive spelling issues with players names too.

Couldnt help thinking Fabergas is a mistake. he's not defensive enough to sit beside Matic for mew, meaning Oscar could be on the way out - which i'd not like, and I can't help thinking why sell Mata then bring in Cesc. While not the same, there quite similar to my mind.

THEN - is Jose changing our formation? 433 would provide 3 in the middle - more defensive than the 2 in a 4231. That formation would allow Matic, Oscar AND Fabergas to play int he middle. Matic as the holder with the other two both capable of getting forwards, pinging passes, and scoring. Defensively the extra body would make up for the lesser defensive capabilities of Fabergas OR Oscar. That leaves Hazzard and Willian either side of Costa up front. Pretty potent for me.

For backup, you have Sala and Schurlle for the wide positions with and another striker still to come in (apparently) to cover (or rival) Costa. In the middle you have Van Ginkle and Ramires at present - with the rumour of Pogba/Vidal/Kroos as well providing plently of quality backup. If Ramires leaves to fund Pogba that's fine as we have some youngsters who play there as well.

With a CB (Varane most likely) and a LB also on the cards (Shaw for me, but Luis would be good too), that's quite a formidable squad.

So - that change in formation (nominal of course these days) actually makes sense for both Jose's prefered playing style - and the players linked/bought/leaving.

Thoughts?

TBH, I think many fans get too hung up on set formations, whether it be 4-3-3 / 4-2-3-1, 4-1-4-1, etc. I think there is a clear desire with recent signings to have players that can adapt to different systems and/or play multiple positions. this allows tactical changes in the game without needing subs. Of course, there may be a preferred formation (and personnel) for any given game however I believe the days of a set tactic are long gone.

With regards to Fabregas, we know that there is an emphasis on pressing the opposition, of which Fabregas is well versed. Of the Barcelona players, he has one of the highest work-rates and a big advantage is that he can move the ball quickly and accurately (short and long). All too often (particularly pre-Matic) our midfielders dwelled on the ball, slowed our play down and allowed the opposition to re-group. From a technical perspective, he certainly has the creativity to break down/move around a stubborn defence. another thing we have struggled with, specifically at home.

If he's available and if all parties are in agreement as to how he would fit in, I can't see much wrong with the potential signing of Fabregas. Sure, there are alternatives however a) are they available? b) what would the whole package cost? c) would they want to come to Chelsea (inc. moving country where applicable) d) do they fit the desired profile of the club. I'm sure there are many more factors!

I agree with both of you. Absolutely 433 with possible transfer to 442.
If(when) signs Fabregas and Oscar stays which I would really like, than Chelsea needs only cover up for Matic. It's clear Chelsea has to signleft back maybe even two, CD or RB. And that's it.

Maybe Chelsea will sign Tiago on one max.two seasons until Chalobah is ready.

06 Jun 2014 12:03:25
Paul and steve you both gave good points.

For paul though I do feel your assessment of Fabregas in comparing him to Mata is wrong, Fabregas does have a slightly more physical side than Mata and could easily play in a three man midfield, just behind the striker as a false Nine, and perhaps even at home to the lower sides as the holding player (not that it would be necessary)., so to be honest I really think he could come and oscar wouldn't have to go. But as I said earlier I do agree with some of your points. I do see us slightly changing our playing style with it being a three man midfield which would also give room for our wide players to exploit. I do agree with steve that this could be the best deal for us. Koke seems to be going nowhere, Vidal looks like its Madrid, Barca close to Rakitic and as ED said it would be difficult to get Pogba? Maybe Ramires going the other way? Barkley also a good shout but I think he is one for next summer if we don't get Pogba or another Target this summer. Would be great to have Fab. And Pogba now tho. with van Ginkel and Tiago (i would personally prefer one of the young lads, Baker, Chalobah maybe even Piazon getting a chance occasionaly?) All seems fixed there, with Costa all but sealed, all I can hope for is Lukaku as second and Courtois in goal, as for the left back I think felipe is the most likely and any other player we get would be a bonus.

P.S. Plus getting Fabregas would also make the gooners sick. So its a win win. ;)

I doesn't matter how would Arsenal fans feel. What matters is that Chelsea is getting world class player and exactly the one that Chelsea really needs.