Chelsea Banter Archive September 18 2012

 

Use our rumours form to send us chelsea transfer rumours.


18 Sep 2012 23:51:15
Every season, no matter what you think of their squad or players, United are always fighting it out for the Championship. Even if on paper you look at them and think they look weak, they are always there or there-abouts. I've always maintained its because of Ferguson's experience, and his ability to get the maximum out of his squad.

After looking through the player appearances for both teams, i found that in the first 4 games of this season, United have used 20 players, and Chelsea have used 14 (and thats including Meireles who has been sold). These figures are only for the players that have started and not the subs btw.

Its a big difference after only 4 games, and this is the reason United always finish the season stronger than any other team. Ferguson uses his full squad throughout the season, from the very first game to the very last. Chelsea need to start doing this, start mixing it up a bit, throwing in Romeu, Cesar, Studge, Moses, Oscar, Marin etc. We don't have to force major changes every game. Just rotate a couple of players, keep everybody fresh without making wholesale changes. It creates a united squad and good team spirit. You don't have a basic starting 11 and subs in your squad then, which creates a divide and unrest. Instead you have a full squad of players, any of which could be starting the next game. You don't win anything at this level against the worlds top team with only using 13/14 players, the full squad needs to be used.

I hope RDM does start to do this. Otherwise the players playing every week will get fatigued and have to be rested. By which time, the ones coming in are not sharp, and know their only starting because someone else needs a rest. Not a good position to be in at the latter stages of the season, when your starting 11 and 'best' players are too tired to be able play at the business end of the season.

We need to make sure players like Hazard, Mata, Cole etc are fresh come next April, and that players like Studge, Moses, Cesar, Oscar, Marin, Romeu etc are not frustrated.

OsgoodIsking

Believable8 Unbelievable1

Good shout.

Agree3 Disagree1

Completly agree even tho i think its Oscar and Romeu that shouldnt be exausthed, they are our best players for their spots atm.

Agree4 Disagree1

I read something online earlier. Man utd so far have started 20 different players so far out of four games. We've started 14 including meireles who's been sold. This doesn't include subs. BLUEBOY1

Agree1 Disagree1

Did you read the post Blueboy?!

IB.

Agree1 Disagree1

Blueboy1 you have confused me?

if you're implying that i actually read it online and didn't go through the player appearances, then i assure you you're wrong. i really did go through the player appearances from both teams websites.

yes, i had that much spare time on my hands after watching liverpools highlight dvd of the last 10 years or so.

oooooooo no he didn't!! whos your daddy now bi*ch!? yeh i am!! say it louder!! "you are osgoodisking!!" yeh i am!

and thats how you own a scouser...

osgoodisking

Agree0 Disagree1

Osgood have you taken your medication today mate lol

curt

Agree0 Disagree3

Fake Osgood post above^^

Agree1 Disagree0

18 Sep 2012 23:36:48
RDM is certainly not a manager of our class and he has proved it. I wonder how good we would play if Ancelotti or even AVB had this squad. One may argue about him winning the CL for us but to be objective, it was because our squad had learn a great deal from the past and let go of the silly mistakes and determined to make it right this time coupled with lots and lots of luck on our way. RDM was had this current squad throughout the pre-season and 4 EPL games but dont even see the potential of the team we got..no game plan, just select and they are left on there own, cannot change play but just sit and watch, the earlier he goes the better i think, cos with this team a good will make a lot of good use. NAVY

Believable8 Unbelievable5

Agree 100%. Nothing against RDM as a former player and a blue for life but his in-game ajustments and sub patterns are puzzling most of the time. I hoped he would have made changes by now but maybe we're asking too much and the task is too big for him.

Agree3 Disagree2

18 Sep 2012 23:07:06
How fickle are some of you fans?
5 minutes ago sturidge was greedy and had to go. Now he is the best thing since sliced bread because he was half decent against qpr. Curt you should pipe down, because if you look at your posts all summer. It was all about torres needing time and for people to lay off.
Remember?

Luke

Believable7 Unbelievable1

No wonder cos some are so used to how we formerly played closing their eyes on whats happening right now. Torres can be scoring three or more most games if he services. Even Drogba who is ready made for this our kind of play struggled to get goals for his last two seasons..the problem is not Torres its the midfield which RDM cannot see. Why outplay Bethrand and Ramires and rely on Mikel and send Essien out. Look how Madrid was opened when Essien was subsituted. No good manager will pick Mikel ahead of Essien. RDM is the problem!

Agree2 Disagree0

Good point mate, a good coach utilizes the strength of the team. last year it was defense and long ball with drogs and we praised RDM for it. This year our strength is our creative mid and our ability to keep posession and create chances but RDM won't use it.

Agree1 Disagree0

Nice to see you picked me out the bunch im flattered luke

yer i know what i said and i gave him time now studge needs to start to find the better option

i admit i backed torres but come january if we sign falcao torres will get dumped on his ass

curt

Agree0 Disagree1

Actually Luke everyone said if sturridge started passing he would fit in. And by the looks of it he's started to do that u mug.

Agree0 Disagree0

Appoligise Curt mate. I had a few last night.
You get what I mean about people changing there minds every 2 mins.
To whom it may concern? If your gonna call me a mug, msn up and sign your post.
Ya toby!

Luke

Agree0 Disagree0

No worries mate

curt

Agree0 Disagree0

18 Sep 2012 21:24:21
any thoughts on the juventus game people? think ramires will have to play central, mostly because we need somone to close down pirlo everytime they have the ball. if we do our usuall BS and back off hes guna spread us sideways if he gets his passing going. im not convinced with juventus defence either, lobbed balls over the top of them with stuge or nando cutting through should have a good few goal scoring opportunitys. hazard oscar mata the 3 attacking. no azpillicueta for the reason we need someone solid especially against giovico and lil rubbishs like that. BLUEBOY1

Believable2 Unbelievable0

Concerned about Ivan at RB because he struggles with pace.

Agree2 Disagree2

18 Sep 2012 20:47:12
Essien starting for real Madrid. Interesting...

Believable3 Unbelievable2

18 Sep 2012 19:56:07
essian good enough for real madrid against premier league champions in champions league game ?rdm must think so much of mikel ???????

Believable8 Unbelievable1

18 Sep 2012 12:32:24
team i would love to see for juventus game what do you lot think ?

cech

azpil cahill terry cole

romeu rami

moses mata/oscar hazard

studge

im losing patience with torres in all honesty

i would bring oscar on for mata in the second half if he doesnt start

reason i picked moses to start is because he really gave us options when he come on at the weekend

take rami off for lamps later in second half just to let him rest

obviously rami starts centeral because when he switched to there saturday he was a completely different player and bossed the midfield

thats just my line up but lets face it it wont happen

curt

Believable4 Unbelievable7

ATM our STRIKER is not the MAIN problem. It's our pivot of Lamps/ Mikel and the fact that RDM can't pick an attacking squad.

Agree9 Disagree0

Debateable mate the pivot arent the ones that are meant to be scoring the striker is and he cant do that

curt

Agree2 Disagree10

Curt why are you loseing patience with Torres? He's scored 2 goals in 4 games?

FT9

Agree8 Disagree1

His first touch is dreadful he rarely keeps the ball he might of scored 2 goals in 4 games but he needs alot more chances to score

ronaldos got 112 goals in 102 games for madrid playing from the left wing

torres couldnt score that many for us if he played for us for 5 years

curt

Agree2 Disagree7

Ronaldo wouldn't score that many goals playing for us with RDM as manager because we'd never get the ball to him. Just like we didn't get the ball to Torres and hazard during the qpr game. Just like we didn't get the ball to Torres hazard or mata during the ath Madrid match.

Curt I can't believe u can't see that the two defensive midfielders are our problem and the way RDM has us playing doesn't help the type of player Torres is. Why do we have so many attacking players if we're going to play Ramires out of position and Bertrand in the attacking 3 positions. It just doesn't make sense.

Ads

Agree8 Disagree1

I've been saying this for ages now but people need to realise Torres will never be the same player he never has control of the ball and he so weak on the ball. He isn't good enough to be our number 1. Sturridge should be our number 1 untill January. Sturridge made us look so much better when he came on against qpr.

Blue con

Agree1 Disagree6

Curt, this was the the midfield of real last season and at the start of the season:
Xabi Alonso,Mesut Ozil,Sami Kedira,Kaka(some times)/ Di Maria/Modric(now).Ronaldo is also supported by Benzema or Huguain.
This is the Chelsea midfield:
Ramires/Sturridge, Lampard,Mikel,Bertrand/Mata,Malouda/Mireles(last season)
Hazard (this season)
Also bear in mind Mikel and Lampard cannot run !
Which midfield would you pick!
No wonder Ronaldo scores left, right and center.
Higuain misses 3 or 4 clear cut chances each game and still gets 20 goals per season
Chances for Torres to score this season!What chances ?
You can count his chances in the fingers of your right hand only.

roan

Agree6 Disagree0

Tbh guys, he has scored 3 so far and will score more, I don't see where this worry has come from. He didn't score in one game, and everyone go bonkers.

Chill.

PR!

Agree6 Disagree0

I've been saying it for months he just isn't the same player that he once was and I feel sorry for the bloke but he obviously isn't enjoying his football or he would be playing much better by making sure defenders aren't pushing him of the ball like a school girl and being able to hold the ball up.

Blue con

Agree1 Disagree1

Roan you look at madrids midfield and strikers anyone would say ronaldo should never be scoring that many with them players around him ?? it depends what way you look at it do you look at it as there world class so easily make chances or do you look at it there world class why is ronaldo getting all the chances?

ads i understand about the pivot of our midfield i never said it wasnt a problem hence why i completely changed it in my line up BUT how long is everyone going to stay on this oh torres cant score because of lamps and mikel rubbish for?

hes no good anymore he never was the moment he joined us i backed him for so long now but blue con has hit the nail on the head he never has control of the ball

he looks like a jack russel chasing a ball

everyone backing torres like i did ........... scenario we buy falcao in january right

one person honestly tell me he would be benched so torres can start and mean it?

if we sign falcao, torres is gone hes 29 next year and we will have studge and lukaku

if your happy to scream at the tv all season because torres is useless then thats your choice but trust me if we dont get studge starting or a new striker in january we are not winning anything

curt

Agree3 Disagree5

Im sorry curt its not debatable, our midfield 2 is ruing our game and RDM playing two certain players out of position is ruining it more than torres is. BLUEBOY1

Agree3 Disagree1

We dont have falcao. if people didnt slow our play down the attacking 4 wd gt the ball quicker and nt b closed down.

Agree2 Disagree0

Sorry but curt is right Torres is the problem, you can't blame him not scoring on lampard and mikel. He gives up far to easily sulks and generally gives the impression of not caring.

He is a lightweight couple of decent tackles from the centreback and you can see him wilt.
And has anyone not thought that the reason he doesn't appear to get the service from his team mates is because they have no faith in his abilitys either. We have to give sturridge

Agree3 Disagree1

The whole point is Ronaldo gets many opportunities to score and takes most of them that is why his goal to game ratio is so high ,he is their main goal scorer and all the play most of time of the time tees him up for the finish.Where as Torres does not get 10 percent of the chances Ronaldo gets.In every game,he can afford to miss 2 or three chances still score 3 goals that is the number of opportunities he gets.That is why their team got record number of points last year.Our team does not create any opportunity to score and so far this season most of the goals are from individual brilliance either from Hazard or from Torres.
For goodness sake even Higuain and Benzema score around 20 goals each.Nine of our team get anywhere near it.That is how bad is our approach play.
Hoof long balls to Ronaldo when he is isolated as the lone striker and lets see how many he scores!
Athletico also do not hoof balls long they play Falcao in most of the time.Neither Falcao nor Ronaldo run past 3 or 4 players to score there goals moist of the time.
It was pretty easy to see the high level of intricate play that Athletico exhibited and the type of play we exhibit.We got smashed 4-1 and our striker did not get even a sniff of a chance to score.
To put the problem into light it is RDM's tactics,and the central midfield deployed.
Lets us first play a bit of football then we will see if Torres scores or not.
roan

Agree2 Disagree1

But ronaldo can recieve the ball to feet an do a good touch or get past a defender or 2 but Torres has a bad touch and this mean he doesn't give anything to the team by losing the ball all the time.

Blue con

Agree0 Disagree1

Not sure which ronaldo you have been watching,last time I saw him he seemed to be rather good at taking people on and beating them,something Torres seem unable to do.

Agree0 Disagree0

I think its our midfield thats messing up our and torres is games. We are to slow at taking deffence to attack. We dont need a new big name striker.
I would pay way over the odds to bring yaya to the bridge! And get druyne back asap. Whos idea was it to lone him out?
Did anybody see him play the other day!
He has the potetial to be an all time great. As for yaya, he is twice ad good as essien in his hay day, and I am a great fan of essien!

Luke

Agree0 Disagree0

I can't believe what i'm hearing that our PIVOT is NOT the main problem with RDM not having the balls or brains to start some of our young players who are better at passing and keeping possession

Has Curt and Blue Con actually been watching these matches?

Did Curt really say Madrid's world class talent in midfield should hinder Ronaldo from scoring so much? (Better talent equals more possession and chances. See Ronaldo's and Messiah's scoring record for club vs for country without the same service)

Curt in order for Torres to be given a fair chance he needs games (not just 1 or 2) without the Lamp/Mikel pivot. True Torres is not the same as he was at 24, but I think he would easily bang in 30 on that Madrid team. When we signed Hazard and Oscar we all said that if Torres can't return to scoring he's done, well 6 games in and I'm not sure how many minutes those 2 along with Mata have play with Torres so we still can't honestly tell.

We are not good at keeping possession with our current starters,(both Mikel and lamps struggle to pass but at least one tries to defend) we play longball (which would be worse for DS) and out of all the big clubs in Europe we average the least amount of shots per match. That's why we went out and spent for creative mids.

Just admit it Curt, u only support Chelsea because of Lamps and u don't like Torres because clearly u r not looking for what's best for the team.

Agree1 Disagree0

Yh I have been watchin the games ur just tryin not to admit we wasted 50 mil on him watch Everytime he gets the ball he gets brushed off it lyk a girl and his touch is terrible. Our pivot is the main problem and I've been saying for ages it should be rami an romeu in that position. I'm just admitting the fact that Torres was playing terrible when we bought him and he still is terrible he will never be the same.

Blue con

Agree0 Disagree0

Obviously we've not seen the return from the £50m investment, but his price tag is not his fault. Firstly he was bought when he was lacking form. Secondly when he arrived after a record transfer fee, he got benched in favour of Drogba and hardly got a run of games to adapt to our system.
To all those that are comparing Torres to Ronaldo. You are personS. Torres even when he was at his best is not on the same level as Ronaldo. The only comparable player is Messi. Not to mention that Ronaldo is more of an inside forward rather than a striker. And for curt to suggest that playing with a world class midfield like Madrid's is a hindrance to Ronaldo is ludicrous.
Yes it's obvious that Torres is not the player he once was, and may never be. Yes he may need 3 or 4 opportunities in order to score a goal. But the fact remains that he doesn't get enough service from midfield. As Blue con pointed out, Torres can't hold the ball up, but that was never a part of his game. Playing long balls up to him in the air is never going to get us anywhere and will only frustrate both Torres and us fans. We need to play with actual wingers who can support him when a long ball is played and we need better CM's so that we can transition from defense to attack quicker. Our slow build up allows teams to get 10 men behind the ball and only exquisite passing or extraordinary individual skill can break them down. The former is something that our current line-up couldn't even hope to dream of. My point is, that yes Torres has his failings and may not be the world class striker we bought, but without proper service there's no striker we can buy who will do any better.
Hunter

Agree1 Disagree0

Blue Con wern"t you one of those that said lets give Torres better service and then Judge him because our style of play last year didn't fit him. Well, except for Hazard starting has anything else really changed? IYO is Torres getting that service or are u saying we need a Drog style striker back?

Agree1 Disagree0

U r right Blue Con i did think we overpaid but that doesn't mean he's rubbish. i think if he gets service he'll be the Torres from the Europe champs and thats good enough until we sign someone better. But we can easily have that right now IMO if RDM could pick a squad.

Agree1 Disagree0

Hate to say this but the first person that should be replaced from the starting 11 is Lampard, he is a true legend but he needs to realize that it's time for him to provide impact from the bench in his natural position. Oscar is the brazilian no. 10, he should be starting week in week out and the only thing in his way is Lamps. I admit that torres has lost a bit of his dribbling skills but sturridge's control isn't that much better. In terms of finishing, torres is way better than sturridge. But again, the main problem is the midfield two and that RDM seems unwilling to change. If he keeps this up, i fear we're gonna have a new manager come January.

aL

Agree3 Disagree1

You can say what you like unamed but iv supported chelsea 22 years so theres no point you using that card

just face it torres isnt good enough how long are you going to defend him

curt

Agree0 Disagree2

Drogba struggled to score last year and so would of cavani. Simple as. No chances being created no goals for the strikers. BLUEBOY1

Agree4 Disagree0

That was last year blueboy its a new season now with much better creativity

its not so much the lack of goals its his ball control and the fact his head drops if he doesnt get constant service

if you watched falcao against us he drops deep to recieve the ball and make attacks torres wont do that as much and if he does then he loses the ball

curt

Agree0 Disagree1

No i never said torres didnt fit our style of play last season and see how he does this year with different service of the ball. Ive always said that torres will never be the same and he shouldnt be our main striker because he isn't good enough.

Blue con

Agree0 Disagree0

More creativity this season?? ACTUAL LOL! Yes we have more creative players... on the bench! Our line-up against QPR had probably less creative talent the some of the teams we put out last season. We had one creative player on the pitch (Hazard) which we had last season (Mata) and at least last season we played with wingers e.g Malouda/Kalou. In the games so far this season where both Hazard and Mata have played Torres has scored... Sturridge is nowhere near the finished product. His touch and finishing are both worse than Torres', yes he came on and ran around a bit more but he didn't get any or create any chances to score.
Hunter

Agree0 Disagree0

Sturridge has a better touch than torres and vision i dont know about the finishing but looking at last season id say sturridge has better finishing. Sturridge made more of an impact in 10 mins than torres did in the 80 mins he played.

Blue con

Agree0 Disagree0

18 Sep 2012 11:50:05
Fellow Chelsea fans! Agree if you think Torres should start ahead of struddige, disagree if not. I disagree, as i think struddige has done more for us than torres has! He's had enuff chances and not performed, wheres struddige HAS performed when he's given a chance. DJ

Believable17 Unbelievable12

Ivanovic luiz JT cole
Lampard
Mata. Oscar mata
Torres. Sturridge

Maybe swap lamps for Romeu but let's just go for it she we, attack is best form of defence

Agree5 Disagree2

Studge for me aswel

if hes unselfish he has so much potential and i backed torres but theres only so much time you can back an off form player

if we did sign falcao in january can you honestly see torres being first choice anymore then when lukaku returns he will probably be sold

curt

Agree1 Disagree7

Omg i didn't know we had two mata's. We would be unbeatable.

Blue con

Agree5 Disagree0

Maybe he has a brother we dont know about

curt

Agree0 Disagree4

We got more than juan mata? Swap one mata for hazard

Agree3 Disagree1

Torres all day, everyone's having a go at him for one game. He was given the ball once in QPRs box and forced a save.

LF07

Agree4 Disagree0

18 Sep 2012 11:33:36
we need to slot oscar into the "3" because the sooner oscar, hazard, and mata learn to link up, the sooner we'll play some of the most beautiful and effective football in the world. I don't understand what RDM is doing keeping him on the bench when every time he plays for brazil he gets about 2 assists. Surely he can get them for us.

Believable8 Unbelievable0

Tottaly agree mate! Oscar needs to start, them 3 behind the striker (which should be struddige) will be the best attacking trio in club football! DJ

Agree2 Disagree5

18 Sep 2012 10:07:47
Personally i feel that victor moses was the best player against qpr, I also though we played better when we reverted to the 433 formation although I do prefer 4231 with the players we have

Ryan

Believable4 Unbelievable2

Totally aree mate him and studge changed the game given longer they would of created a goal

curt

Agree2 Disagree4

How did Sturridge change the game?

Agree2 Disagree0

18 Sep 2012 06:42:49
We could have easily lost that QPR game.Mikel was a horror show, for me ,he almost gifted QPR a goal by giving a back pass straight to their player,tackled max 3 times in the game and that too inside our own box.Somebody should tell him that he is there to win ball ahead of the defender not behind them.As he and Lampard drop back to make it a back six most of the time gives the opposition space to play in front of us.This is dangerous to say the least as against good teams we will be carved open due to the huge amount of space provided to them as they have the players who can gleefully exploit the space.
The second thing that is happening is that as we are too deep when the ball is won it is won in our box and with Ramires also alongside Ivanovic and Bertrand alongside Cole there are only three ways we can give the ball to our two attackers Torres and Hazard:
1)Through intricate play between the players and moving up as a team to sup[port the attackers.
This is impossible for us as the players we have are incapable of playing intricately.Lampard(of now),Mikel,Ramires and Bertrand are not the best passers nor do they have the guile to work together to play through the opponents to get to the front players.
2)The second thing the team can do is to rely on its wingers to run with the ball.Ramires and Bertrand not being wingers lack the guile and run straight ahead and are easily tackled by the opposition players.
3)The third thing we can do in that situation is hoof the ball up to our front two to bypass the opposition midfield.This thing happens when the above two fail and the team is devoid of any imagination or creativity.Unfortunately,this is what our team does and the two players upfront who have pace and trickery as their forte are not that good in winning balls in the air and hold up play until our midfielders join up.Even if they try very hard and win the ball, they are so isolated that the ball eventually falls to the defenders.It is just not the fault of these two players ,who were brought in to play fast attacking dynamic football.They even try to take the defenders on their own and score but against well organised teams they are outnumbered more often than not.
Also unfortunately they are the once blamed most of the time for the teams failure to score goals and play attractive football and are made scapegoats.
I will just name a few who have more or less failed to adapt to this type of football.Torres,Anelka(played well with Ballack, Deco ,Joe struggled like the others when they left),Crespo,Shevchenko,Pizzaro.Each of them had scored hoards of goals for others and were regarded as the some of the best strikers in the world.All failed to adapt to this system ,the only one who was suited to this system was Drogba,who was tailor made for this kind of play.
If we continue to blame strikers and do not change our system we better buy Andy Caroll and sell Torres.Because if anybody has seen Falcao play will also know that he is not a Drogba style striker and even with the form he is in will struggle to get the goals ,just like the others. Also Sturridge is not an out and out striker.He is more of second striker as he always drifts to the right when playing upfront so is used in the wings more often then not where he sneaks into the far post unnoticed and scores.He is good at dribbling and going past players and is not good at give and goes and dragging defenders around and making clever runs.If he is to play he is well suited to the role of the second striker.
It is upto RDM to change the style ,which
does not seem likely to happen if anything we have gone even more defensive.
If he insists on playing Lamps,Mikel,Ramires (on the wing) he would do well to,as i said earlier,buy Andy Carroll and Lampard,Mikel, Cech can lump the ball up to him all day long.Just brilliant.
roan

Believable8 Unbelievable2

17 Sep 2012 18:29:51
Hi Ed002. in regards to Marin and Oscar. Have they got any health problem?

Peter Tomic {Ed002's Note - I heard a sneeze.}

Believable1 Unbelievable0

Ed, is Oscar being rested or is he not yet ready for the first team in the coaching teams view? {Ed061's Note - I can not give you the view of the coaching staff, I can only assume he was being rested after playing for Brazil. Hopefully the view is to have him fresh for Juventus.}

Agree0 Disagree0