Chelsea Banter Archive February 18 2020

 

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18 Feb 2020 11:36:52
Didn't want to post after the game as would of been to reactionary but I'm 50/ 50 on frank now. The Var results were another example of how bad VAR is and how refs don't want to make these decisions so won't ever go to a monitor and see for themselves, it's a cop out to let someone miles away make to call.

But with frank and the team I know he has a weak squad, we started a game with Willian Pedro Michy jorginho cabellero, it's 2020 for Christ sake these players should of been replaced 2 years ago. Michy s never been good enough and frank has treated Giroud horribly imo, Sarri was booed jeered and sang " you don't know what your doing " when kante was played out of position and the substitutions where like for like every time, frank seems to have a fed pass at doing exactly what we hated Sarri for, were getting knocks and injuries which is horrible luck or naive training / prep ( not franks fault I know ) we haven't improved defensively from day of of the season, United have been terrible and boring to watch all season.

They’ve scored 8 goals in 3 games v us. We've lost more points at home this season than we did from between 2004 - 2010, we've blown a huge lead from being one point behind Leicester to 9 points away with united spurs breathing down our neck AND wolves and Sheffield United., wolves and Sheffield United!

Games coming up v spurs Bayern and city in coming weeks can anyone say there confident of this side digging in deep and getting a draw? It's middle of feb and frank doesn't know our best CB partnership? Come need of next weekend we can be 7th. how deflating is that, and again the point.

Transfer ban and young players. It's the older players who haven't done enough Pedro willian jorginho Azpilicueta Michy, frank has his hands tied and can only play with what his got but doesn't inspire any fight like conte / Jose done at times to have that tactically experience to get the results without the players,

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{Ed047's Note - honestly no idea why you appointed Lampard in the first place after one average season in the Championship.

18 Feb 2020 12:40:28
In some ways Lampard was under no pressure this season, and could take the year to find his feet.

I keep saying it, but what were the expectations at the start of the season?

If we wouldn't have had a purple patch, which pushed us clear of the rest during their inconsistent seasons, we would be mid-table where most expected us to be at the start of the season. We play a Spurs team without Son and Kane this Saturday, win that and we've got a gap again with some favourable fixtures (if there is such a thing this season) in hand.

I think Lampard's done what's expected, possibly exceeded it given the conditions he took over in. Forget strikers, center backs or any other positions - this team needs to find leaders from somewhere. That's what'll help Lampard the most.

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18 Feb 2020 11:50:18
Because with the ban and selling hazard the club wanted someone who wasn’t going to turn place toxic and someone who fans would be patient ( heart over head ) with. I think his doing the same job as ole is at United, stop the rot use the young players, no pressure, excuses in transfer ban and hazard going, a rebuilding and then, replace him when we can get Allegri or poch, that my opinion not what I’m saying I want.

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{Ed047's Note - it’s just so left field for your club but to a degree I guess it makes sense whilst the ban was in place but then to do nothing when it was lifted seemed incredibly odd, unless of course he really is just a stop gap.

18 Feb 2020 12:26:50
Completely agree Ed047 quite possibly the most ridiculous decision of the Abramovich era and from my perspective something that should lead to heads rolling at board level.
I would love to know what other £400m business would employ a coaching team with 12 months experience.
At least Solksjaer has Phelan as his number two who is vastly experienced.

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{Ed047's Note - on that note Turvey we’ve just appointed Arteta with zero experience 🤦‍♂️

18 Feb 2020 12:53:13
Ed47 it was a risk and maybe the club thought the appointment will keep the fans and media on side for the longest duration possible whilst the club deal with the transfer ban. Lampard is a club legend and a young upcoming english manager and therefore he had the fans and media on his side from the start.

Let's be honest, any other other manager would have been getting criticised for the recent slump in form massively, maybe some would have been sacked. To an extent the plan has worked because majority of the fans are still behind Lampard, a few of us are 50/ 50 and a few would say his out of his depth at Chelsea. The media are not on his back either who have been busy getting other clubs and other managers.

Matt your post is good mate. I feel for Sarri who was mistreated from the off. His treatment probably resulted in the club changing directions.

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{Ed047's Note - like I said to Matt, if he is just a stop gap then maybe it’s fine to run with and if he does come good what’s lost

18 Feb 2020 18:13:06
Cant really criticise Frank because this is not his team. Might have to accept we won't qualify for champions league this year. As long as the board back him in the summer we can start to see the beginnings of a Lampard team. Look how long Liverpool have Klopp to get the team he wanted.

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18 Feb 2020 18:57:30
He could play kante in his best position?
Give Giroud a chance?
Try two at top when chasing a game?

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18 Feb 2020 14:15:07
Ed imagine if we’d of got someone like Allegri ( my personal opinion is safe and boring football ) but his a highly regarded coach, with this squad a transfer ban thst we didn’t know would be lifted and hazard leaving them he wouldn’t of last the season and that’s another top coach well have lost, Lampard was to carry the burden of hazard the ban and squad, Im hoping that Lampard with better players can compete but I haven’t seen anything tactically that makes me think his a good coach, he ran out of ideas West Ham Southampton Bournemouth Everton Brighton, and the worst united team Of my life doing the treble over us this year, not good enough.

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{Ed047's Note - he’s definitely not convincing me Matt and a mate who supports Derby wasn’t happy with him there either.

18 Feb 2020 16:00:26
Do you have anyone to support Arteta who is more experienced Ed047?
If not then an equally ridiculous appointment.

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{Ed047's Note - we have a couple of senior coaches who have good experience Turvey so not so bad.

Still a risk but he has a bit of time on his side to see where it goes.

19 Feb 2020 00:59:41
I really can't believe you guys already turning on Lampards back. we are still in the 4th. With the team everyone has written off at the start of the season. Just WOW.

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18 Feb 2020 07:11:28
Ed001, as a neutral observer, what did you make of the ref and VAR spectacle last night?

The Giroud Offside was in theory correct. It's stupid that they call of goals for marginal offsides that have no impact on the action, but that's how it's been called all season so no complaints there.

But Zouma's goal should have definitely stood I thought. Either it's a no call or it's a penalty as Azpi got pushed first. So if a push is a foul then it's a penalty.

Maguire kicked out and didn't even deny it afterwards. That's a red card in the first half.
Zouma yellow was perplexing to me. All ball. Martial just landed badly, but the tackle was clean as ever.
And lastly the yellow for diving. Sure, he went down. But I've seen them given as fouls as Bruno stuck out his leg clumsily. Yellow was definitely harsh.

So wondering if I'm too biased or whether it really was as bad as I felt.

United really do have a talent for winning games when not creating anything of note. It's something we desperately lack.

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{Ed001's Note - it was terrible last night that VAR got those two big calls wrong. How anyone could say that the kick from Maguire was not a clear and obvious, blatant red card I do not know! The nonsense made up about he was worried about him falling on him, come on, that is not an excuse to kick someone in the knackers. And he did it with enough force to move Batshuayi as well. You could visibly see he moved backwards. Has to be a red.

I also thought the initial push was on Azpilicueta and if you are going to give a push there, well I don't know how you can not see he was pushed first. That should have stood. It would have been nonsense to go back and give a penalty, just let the goal stand.

I actually thought it was an excellent tackle by Zouma, but referees know nothing about playing the game and judge those kind of challenges as reckless. A poor decision but I can see why he chose to book him.

The problem with the booking for diving is that Willian went down looking to make it worse. He threw his arms forward clearly hoping he would get a pen. Again I can understand why the ref saw it as a dive. I do agree with you that it was harsh, Bruno left his leg there and Willian had to avoid it, which makes it a foul. It might well only be classed as an indirect free kick, but Bruno certainly impeded his progress, even if contact was not made. It is one of those that refs will give one way one week, the next they give it the other. Harsh but not totally unreasonable.}

18 Feb 2020 09:10:25
I agree 100% with your analysis Ed.

The ref was poor and VAR is worse.

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{Ed001's Note - I still can't get over how the VAR can not see that as a red. I get the ref missing it, he can't see everything and he would probably have looked away by the time it happened, but how can VAR not see the deliberate movement of his leg? VAR has turned out to be a waste of time. None of the things it has been brought in for have actually happened. It was supposedly being brought in to stop all the pulling and pushing in the box during setpieces, but now you can push an attacker into someone else and win a free kick! During the Liverpool game, van Dijk was rugby tackled by their defenders at every setpiece, but no penalty was ever given. On one of the corners, two players combined to rugby tackle him to the ground, but still no decision, even though it was easy to spot. But they can spot someone's foot being an inch too far forward on an offside! It is not what VAR should be for. It should be to make the game better. It is not doing that.}

18 Feb 2020 09:14:03
Luck is important but we still have to be a lot better than what we are witnessing and not just yesterday.

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18 Feb 2020 09:23:00
Agree 100% Ed001. Taylor lost the grip on the game after the Maguire incident.

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18 Feb 2020 09:45:24
VAR has been poor all season so I won't bother complaining about it. I'm not surprised one bit, however the comedians in charge yesterday need to be briefed about their officiating performance. They can't keep getting await with it.

More importantly, I'm more disappointed by our team performance. At the moment, we come across as a team that will create chances but will not score, however the first or 2nd opposition attacks lead to us conceding which is baffling. This is a concern because the two most important aspects are wrong which is a worrying combination.

Ed1 what do you reckon Lampard can do to sort this issue out? He comes across as very busy in his own ideas and may not be seeing simple fixes. What are your thoughts mate?

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{Ed001's Note - first off, he should have given Giroud more game time. That is a much needed experienced head who can help the younger players through a game and help them keep their composure when it is not going right. He also scores goals. Not at the rate of some, but he adds a significant goal threat and occupies defenders, creating more space for others.

By playing him as the main front man, you immediately have someone to actually head the ball when you cross it in. There is no real aerial threat otherwise, especially if it is Batshuayi up front.

Secondly, you need more bodies getting into the box when it is wide. Most games you have just two getting in there. Usually one of the wide attackers is out either crossing or supporting the man crossing. The other is usually hanging round on the edge of the box, rather than getting in trying to get on the end of something. The other wideman should be in there as well or the opposite side full-back. One should hold out wide and one should get in the box. You have three midfielders, one sometimes gets in there, but that should be happening on every attack, one gets in there. Two holding around the edge of the box to pick up the bits and pieces is plenty.

It is just about risk to be honest. You have to risk more bodies in the box and take the chance on leaving more space for a break. Too much emphasis on ball retention leaves too many bodies outside the box to ensure you can get loose balls.

With the defenders you have, I think it would be worth the risk, as they are good at one-on-one defending, they can handle that. It is deadballs you struggle to defend. I don't see many teams who are going to cut you apart on fast breaks, so long as no one getting forward neglects their job defensively. Which is why Alonso could be a problem imo, he would do the attacking job but suddenly forget how to sprint when defending. To help it, dropping Kante back five yards, so he is on the edge of the box covering, when he plays, would make a massive difference. It is no wonder, to me anyway, that he is suddenly picking up lots of injuries when asked to play further forward. He now has to run much further to get back into position when the ball is lost and he was already covering so much ground it was bound to be too much to give him that little bit more to do.

You do need to ensure someone else is there to cover Jorginho, as his weakness is recovery pace to help on the breaks. But give him that cover, either Kovacic or Kante being alongside him, and he can get around the edge of the box and start hitting some shots from dangerous areas. He can strike a ball, so why not let him get in a position to do so?}

18 Feb 2020 10:26:15
Excellent views Ed1. I always like reading your analysis which I find very sensible. Thanks mate, really appreciate it.

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{Ed001's Note - thank you mate.}

18 Feb 2020 12:45:07
If you and quite a few other people can see the problem why do you think the management team are so blind to at least a few soloutions/ alternatives?

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{Ed001's Note - because we all see things differently. They are looking for ball retention as a priority. I think ball retention is good, but I would not have it as high a priority as they do. I would go for more risk. It is not my head on the line if it goes wrong though, so it is understandable the risk/reward factor is seen differently by those who have got their heads on the line.}

18 Feb 2020 13:27:09
The first part of the equation that needs attention is our defensive shape which is often verging on chaos .
How we can have conceded 12 more goals than a promoted team (Sheff Utd) is scandalous.
Any team that plays counter attacking football know they are in with a good chance of scoring.
We don't have the players to outscore our opponents very often so creating a solid defensive base is a must.
Interestingly at no level in the club has the defensive side of the game been developed rather possession and out scoring the oppo.
This is very much Morris's approach at youth level.

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18 Feb 2020 20:38:21
Thanks for that reply, Ed. Basically agree with every word.

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{Ed001's Note - welcome mate.}

19 Feb 2020 04:15:53
Nice Post Ed.

VAR is killing my enjoyment of the game. I just can’t see the benefit. If you’re just trading one refs judgement for another’s, that’s not value-add. If you’re making calls that could ONLY be seen in super slow motion or in frame-by-frame analysis, then why even have the side judges and linesmen? I would be sooooo happy if we went back to human refs and goal line technology.

VAR is a solution in search of a problem.

Regarding offsides and VAR, generally, I wish they’d change it to be more like the forward pass rule in the NFL: as long as any part of the player is even with the defender, then it’s on-side. This will result in more scoring and feels truer to the spirit of the law, which is to keep players from cherry picking the defences. Giroud’s off-side call? It was a good goal.

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18 Feb 2020 08:38:24
I'd give Christensen a go at DM to give us that presence and solidity especially now Kante is out. He should be okay to wear a mask. Zouma, Rudiger and Tomori are all fit at CB and we are short in midfield with Kante and RLC out.

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18 Feb 2020 09:20:38
Up until the injury Christensen was one of our better players last night (low bar) so i wouldn’t move him into midfield.

Reece James was ok and Kovacic had some good spots but the rest were average.

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18 Feb 2020 20:31:58
Surely the obvious player to move into midfield is Reece James with Azpi moving to RB and Emerson (who I think has been very unfairly treated) at LB.

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18 Feb 2020 08:06:11
I sit in the Shed Upper and the banter is always something I enjoy but the type of the banter is also I observe.

Last night I had my usual halftime argument with the same guy who wanted Conte, Sari and now Lamps sacked. He also "hates" Willian and over a season will dislike just about every player in the squad. Last night there were a few supporters agreeing with him that Lamps was out of his depth and him and Jodie should get the tin tac.

I don't agree. I think would should stay with Lamps and Jodie for another season or two. It's supposed to be a project but then so was the Sari appointment.

I do think we need to do one or two more pre-window deals because I'm not sure we will be in Champs League next season.

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18 Feb 2020 08:30:20
The feeling at Stamford Bridge is changing from positivity to negatively. I heard a chorus of boos at halftime and fulltime.

Maybe Lampard is out of his depth, our recent form would definitely suggest so which is massively concerning. The rotten form we are on spans to 14 games and there is no signs of this being addressed. Yes we are a few transfers short, however, the current crop of players are good enough to have got2.

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18 Feb 2020 08:43:28
Most of the boos were mainly due to the ball bouncing off Michy because of his overall build up play which is never going to improve. Giroud needs to be starting from now on. I’d actually go back to 3-4-3 with James and Alonso crossing to Giroud as our focal point. Best plan of attack right now with the injuries we have.

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18 Feb 2020 08:55:47
I would like Lampard to be given the start of next year, I know a few would disagree (given Poch's availability) but given that we started this path we may aswel give him some tools to succeed and see what happens. Lampard is in charge of his own destiny and if this poor form continues then I'm sure we won't finish in the top 10 let alone top 5 and that pretty much would force the boards hand.

There is no excuses, the current crop of players are definitely good enough to have got more points than the 15/ 42. Yes you can argue we have played a lot of youngsters but was that necessary? Players like Barkley, Pedro, Giroud, Alonso, Emerson etc should have featured more as they offer experience. Somenof these players are a shell of themselves due to inactivity. Pulisic had to earn his place in the team over Mount who Lamps preferred despite being out of position.

Lamps says yesterday we deserved a lot more. He said the same in the first game vs Utd too. However, over two games we are 6-0 down on aggregate. Add the cup game and its 8_1. Luck is important but we still have to be a lot better than what we are witnessing and not just yesterday. Over the last 14 games we deserve 15 points.

Finally, a question to everyone. If Poch was interested in taking over at Chelsea who would take him?

This may sound bad but I'd like to think Poch is different class.

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18 Feb 2020 09:17:09
My guess is Pochettino is available an no thanks!

I’m not sure what foot Michy prefers but as I’ve said before the balance leaves a lot to be desired. No natural left footed players in the starting lineup can’t be right.

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18 Feb 2020 09:21:21
Ziyech is a Lampard signing, the club aren't going to sack him.

What were expectations at the start of the season? Seems like people have got carried away with a position in the league that's mainly down to the inconsistency of other teams.

I remember Klopp saying that he shouldn't be judged during his first year at Liverpool as it takes a year to turn a team to his image. Lampard took over in a unique situation, he deserves the summer and a fair chunk of next season.

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18 Feb 2020 09:23:00
how can people call for his head he didn't sign a single player other than kovacic since he signed an he's been 1 of the better players dis season. ziyech will add a lot of quality to our squad when he comes in and if we sign a top winger or striker for the left were back in buisness. i think wel end up with onana aswell for some reason and a top left back and who knows if zouma or christensen head off out the gap we could also be in line for a new cb overall we all no what palyers aren't good enough and who needs out and what areas needs to be improved . give them time. they deserve a chamce to build der own team. look at the state of the current squad that line up last nite was dreadfull it shows how limited we are i reckon wel be beaten comfortably against spurs an bayern and within the next 4 weeks i predict wel be 6 points outside top 4.

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18 Feb 2020 10:04:28
My view is that Lampards gets given the summer transfer window to re-build and then the start of next season to see how things go. This is despite the fact that Poch is a different class manager.

J our expectations at the start of the season were not great (solid 5th IMO) but that's not the best way to look at it mate because it doesn't give the full story of what's happened during the season so far.

Did we expect expect Man Utd, Arsenal or Spurs to be this poor? I certainly didn't think so. Did we expect Poch to get sacked? Did we expect Jose to come in? Did I expect Sheffield to be 2 points off Chelsea? . Prior to Ancelotti arriving at Everton they were in the relegation zone, however they are now 5 points off Chelsea? We shouldn't be using our expectations at the start of the season to pepper of the cracks.

Here's a fact, any previous managers that have been sacked would have ran away with the top 4 position by now. If you told me at the start of the season that we will go through 14 games and drop points in 10 then I'd think you are having a laugh. We are currently in the bottom 4 in last 14 games on form? I didn't expect that. now unless that changes we are sliding down further.

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18 Feb 2020 10:27:46
I am hopeful something clicks soon.

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18 Feb 2020 13:42:43
I get what your saying Shak, we had low expectations but at the point where we were clear of the chasing pack there was then an expectation of maintaining the gap.

But it's no coincidence that our overall drop in form has come at at time when Abraham has stopped scoring, Mount isn't as impactive, Pulisic has had knocks and gone off the boil etc. These are all young lads with big roles in the side, the early expectations of where we'd finish were partly down to our reliance on young players who would be inconsistent and suffer knocks.

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19 Feb 2020 00:28:18
Peter was a ranieri signing but didn’t meet till after 10 year.

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19 Feb 2020 04:23:17
Is Lampard 'out of his depth'? No signings yet so it is hard to say. Nobody available in January that we could get. Sarri ball had deeper issues. Frank can at least change tactics a little. Although Sarri would still be at Chels but he was offered the top job in Italy and so he left. We needed a manager and with no transfers available which manager could we have realistically brought in anyways? Frank played the youth and we all applauded. My only issue with Frank really is that he has persisted with Michy and left Giroud out in the cold. Giroud offer us more.

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18 Feb 2020 07:39:02
{Ed's Note - Ed001 has posted a new article entitled, Review Of The Day 18th February 2020

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