Chelsea Banter Archive July 31 2016

 

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31 Jul 2016 18:01:54
In a dream world I would love to sell Oscar to inter as part of a deal for Icardi. I think he is a top player and would do well with how conte wants to play, but as the eds have said that he will probably not be moving. Who do you guys think we will sign, if anyone?

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31 Jul 2016 18:11:14
I got a bad feeling we will replace Costa with Emile Heskey, but 60 million for Heskey seems very steep, there are probably 20 better strikers in the world than Heskey, even batshauiy is better than Heskey (lukaku) lol.

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31 Jul 2016 18:28:55
Lucky you put that Lukaku at the end I didn't realise you were talking about him
Comedy gold.

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31 Jul 2016 18:45:18
The only thing I would want to know is that Conte actually wants him (if this is true), and that this is not an Emanalo signing. Hope we have learnt by know to listen to the manager and not the so called Roman advisers, who have been so poor over the past couple of years.

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31 Jul 2016 18:57:54
I think we all no most signings are not done by the manager at Stamford bridge and it a number of people who agree on transfers.

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31 Jul 2016 19:31:48
I only hope that conte wants him. Conte will want to play a certain type of way, and so the players be needs will be able to adapt to that system. What is the point of the so called "number of people " agreeing to buy a player, when it is not the type of player that will fit into the managers way of playing. Jose had to put up with "non Jose" type players, surely we have learnt our lessons by now,

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31 Jul 2016 20:03:17
I hope so don't see it tho.

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31 Jul 2016 20:37:40
Get a player that the manager wants and not a player that Emanalo and co want, and expect the manager to fit him into the system. No point in appointing a new manager if u do that. Conte did not work with players that were thrust upon him as Italian manager, he chose who he thought could do the job he wanted, as was proved correct,

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01 Aug 2016 11:13:42
Really don't get the problem with re-signing Lukaku. He certainly knows where the goal is in the premiership which if I remember rightly was the problem we had last year. We miss the Didier Drogba style of bulldozing his way through defences. You've got all of that (apart from the touch) in Lukaku. Get 2 up top and we'll see goals.

Lukaku/ Bats or Traore playing off. Perfect.

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31 Jul 2016 16:11:11
Gotta say the conversation about how we purchased players for differing systems is something that hasn't been acknowledged but is incredibly obvious when looking at things from the outside. After the champions league victory we looked to purchase players who suited an up tempo possession style system; however we still had a squad whose style catered to a compact physical style of play. With that said you have to have some variety in your squad to be able to tailor your team to different opponents. This is where I feel fabregas comes in; in Mou's first year we struggled mightily to control the pace of games from deep as well as get the ball up to the attackers without them dropping deep which is something Cesc can manage. However Fab isn't suited to games where we don't control the ball on a 60% clip or so which is how we got exposed last year. As Ed001 said, we need to recruit to a consistent style of play and for the most part our purchases need to be players who are either go immediately into the first team or put a great deal of pressure on those in the team.

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31 Jul 2016 16:55:28
It doesn't help sacking manergers every year who each have a different way of playing.

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31 Jul 2016 08:33:20
What's people's thoughts on the Costa rumours coming back again? They just don't seem to want to go away! I don't want him to go but you can't keep an unhappy player. I'm also dreading us resigning Lukaku especially at the rumoured 60 million price we're willing to pay I'd be tempted to test Dortmund's resolve with a bid for Aubameyang who is ten times the player.

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31 Jul 2016 09:16:42
I can't see it sadly I think Aubameyang is destined for the big boys of Europe, Real Madrid or psg, man city perhaps, his price will be huge same as higuim that's the price of a top striker 60 million plus, we will probably be looking at cheaper options around 25-30 million pound strikers, sad to say but we are no longer able to compete financially with the big big teams for some reason or another, well it must be ffp, we just had the worst season in the last 12-15 years and it doesn't seem to be any urgency to sign top top top players to put it right, I hope this isn't the begging of the end for Chelsea, every other teams in Europe are pulling away from us quality wise, and the extra money in premiership means average teams are catching us ie West Ham, Stoke, Everton, we shouldn't be shopping in the same shops as these teams, we should shop in the same shops as juventus, Bayern, psg, Real Madrid, Barcelona, man city, I'm pretty worried for the future if we don't make the top 4 this season because you can bet hazard, courtois, Costa, fabregas will definitely be off and others.

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31 Jul 2016 09:26:53
Talk about over-bloody-reaction!

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31 Jul 2016 09:41:59
I don't believe I'm over reacting, I've been watching Chelsea's decline for 18 months, even in our title wining season I think we limped over the line, after Christmas, add to that we then finished 10 th, if we miss the top 4 this coming season I fear we will lose a lot of players and not replace them with the same quality, this is worrying I don't have blinkers on and I don't want to paper over cracks I call it how I see it, transfer wise I don't believe we as a club are doing enough!, in my humble opinion, imagine if Real Madrid, psg, Bayern Munich, Barcelona had finished 10 th in the league, what would they be doing? , how would they improve? , as it stands at the moment I don't believe Chelsea will win the league, I think at best our aim is to get 4 th but with, Spurs, Arsenal, West Ham, Liverpool all strengthening there squads it will be extremely hard to break into the top 4, all this can be made easier with 2/ 3 top class world class players signed, I know it's a month left of the transfer window and I think we will sign 1-2 average players, I remember when we use to be 2 nd / 3 rd faveroties to win the champions league, how did it all go wrong, I'm honestly not trying to be ultra negative or pick arguments, on my kids life's I'm worried for our Chelsea, unless we smash a few big big transfers in.

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31 Jul 2016 09:59:26
Always the optimist, cat.

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31 Jul 2016 10:14:20
Kante best midfielder in league last year got him for 32 million thts a steal we dnt need suppose big transfers in to challenge we have a well than capable squad to challenge on all fronts could b doing with a new cb n and striker and we're good to go then add the passion and desire of the new manager who looks like a guy that takes no prisoners I have a feeling we will mke it into top 4 while challenging for title and will win a cup.

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31 Jul 2016 10:15:36
If Chelsea sign Marquinhos, greismen, Koke I will be optimistic, all I'm saying we don't have a great side at the moment I hope we improve with 3/ 4 quality signings then I'll go and put money in Chelsea wining the league, until then I'll just be honest.

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31 Jul 2016 10:30:59
This argument will almost certainly rage on until we have played half a dozen games and things look a little clearer. I agree with Cat, we did limp over the line in the Championship year and played poorly virtually all last season. Yes, Kante had a great season last year BUT we are buying on trust that it wasn't just one season. Likewise with Batshuayi, we have bought potential nothing more so as it stands we have not made enough crucial signings with the season starting on August 13th. Will Costa leave, will we sign those important players? We are drifting into last seasons situation which all will agree was an embarrassing transfer pre-season. As it stands I think we will be fighting for a top four at best.

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31 Jul 2016 10:39:21
So having players like Courtois, Azpi, Kante, Cesc, Hazard and Costa isn't good enough for you? Just because we're not looking to splash £80m on one player doesn't mean we're not targeting great players. Batshuayi has impressed so far and we all saw what Kante could do last season. You might think you're being honest but you sound like a broken record, think you chose the wrong London club if I'm honest because the gooners also love a moan.

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31 Jul 2016 10:44:58
C1915 that's my point exactly, I was thinking the same about Kante he was unbelievable last season 1 of the best midfielders in the world amazing! . But when Leicester signed him he was 24 years old and worth 5 million pounds, why is that? , why didn't his selling club value him at 50 million pound?, why did he join a team who narowly escaped relegation? , why didn't a top team sign him? , how many caps did he have for France 1 year ago at the age of 24? , all our hope is his last seasons form was excellent, I hope and pray and cross my fingers and toes that he's as good as last season, not the 6 years he's been a professional player before that, Robert huth had an amazing season last year also, he got in the team of the year, food for thought?

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{Ed001's Note - he wasn't signed by anyone else because of his height. That is the only reason he was £5m and not £35m.}

31 Jul 2016 10:56:31
Yeah but he is 1.69 cm, verrati is 1.65 cm does height really knock 30 million off?

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{Ed001's Note - I think you are missing the point, Kante is not Italian, he is French, where they place prime importance on physicality.}

31 Jul 2016 11:03:27
Ed 001 what is your unbiased opinion on Chelsea, there starting 11, overall squad how they compare to other teams in England with regards of winning the league? , and how we compare in Europe with other clubs? How far away you think we are from getting in amongst Bayern Barcelona or Real Madrid,? Your opinion coming from not a Chelsea supporter would be interesting opinion? Thanks if you take the time to answer.

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{Ed001's Note - that is difficult to answer within one post! To do the questions justice I would need to write a lengthy article. In recent years recruitment has been poor, the likes of Fabregas were clearly not what was required, for starters. There has been a real issue there since you lost Steve Walsh, it seems. Most of the players that are top class were there a while ago. Like Courtois, though out on loan, had been recruited a long time ago.

Recently there was a drive for physicality (Costa) over real quality (Hazard). Then it seemed like the club tried to rectify it by going for someone with no physical presence but technically excellent in Fabregas. Now they seem to have decided more physicality is required again.

Too much emphasis has been placed on buying for loans to profit, which has taken away from what should have been the focus - buying for the first 11. Now you have players like Batshuayi, Remy etc who have only been bought to bolster the squad, not with the expectation of them taking a first team place and holding on to it.

It has left the club lacking, the squad is strong, but the first choice team lacks outstanding quality players. Aside from Hazard, and Courtois on form, who is really top class in the squad? Zouma could be in the future, Kante, but he is not going to create and score 20 goals a season. There is a real lack of actual quality in the final third.

There is a massively swollen squad but it is mainly players who will never be good enough (and, in my opinion, should never have been bought) such as Bamford, Remy, Moses, Pedro, Willian, Oscar, Marin, Van Ginkel. Then there is Terry, there is still no ready replacement for him, with Cahill nowhere near good enough, you only really have Zouma, when he is fit.

I think Conte really has his work cut out to get top four. You will need a lot of luck to get a place there with this squad, unless some real quality is bought.}

31 Jul 2016 11:09:28
Yeah get your point similar to what happend to Dennis wise at Wimbledon.

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{Ed001's Note - yes mate. If you come through at Barca, they now don't care about height because of Xavi (though he nearly got dumped out of the academy because of his height), but most clubs just won't even look at anyone short. Wenger has even admitted (and I know he is not the only one just the only one to admit to the mistake publicly) that he rejected the scout's recommendation to sign Kante because of his height. Mind Wenger is not the best example, he also rejected his scout's recommendation to sign Bale to sign Walcott, who his scout had warned him to ignore!}

31 Jul 2016 11:12:57
Saim: You moan when it suits you. It is our opinion. You quote a list of players, who with the exception of Kante, where NOT good enough for me last year and as a supporter you should have been equally disappointed. Are they going to be better this season, who knows but they will have to be significantly if we are going to challenge. I made no mention of 'splashing' anything on anyone but I do not wish to see the waste of money of last year but I think we should have had a better game plan than we appear to have. I have supported Chelsea since the early 1960's so I know the history and it is littered with self inflicted mistakes.

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31 Jul 2016 11:19:25
Not everyone is a wonder kid. Some players bloom later. To say we cannot keep up financially with the big boys in my opinion is utter tripe. It's more a case we spend wisely. We're talking about sustainability. Throwing money at it year in year out is not feasible. We did that for a few years to get to the level we are at now, but that is not sustainable. Imo we have signed very good players so far in key positions we needed, the window is far from over also so I'd say judge it come deadline day and not yet.

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31 Jul 2016 11:20:36
Spot on Ed001. French squad selected Giroud and Gignac for the physical presence, rather than Lacazette even though he is the better player overall.

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31 Jul 2016 11:24:55
Thanks for taking the time ed appreciate it, yep that's how I see it, but I seem to get called negative or pessimistic, for stating the obvious,

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{Ed001's Note - a good manager should be able to do better with the team than the sum of its parts though. As Ranieri did with Leicester last season. Though they had a few goalscorers, they only really had Mahrez with real creative quality, so it can be done.}

31 Jul 2016 12:26:07
We were awful last season, we have a new coach who has a massive rebuilding job ahead of him. Were people expecting us to come out of the traps and look like the EPL / UCL champions of old? Yeah we could go out and buy Griezmann, Pogba, Verrati, Marquinos etc. but there isn't really much realism in that.

Lets be honest this rebuilding job could take a number of years. Kante and Batshuayi are decent signings and there'll be more over the coming weeks as Conte, with Rahman off, has clearly decided who he wants to keep around and ditch from the USA touring party.

I'd be delighted with top four this season.

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31 Jul 2016 12:26:42
I disagree ed I believe Willian and Moses are good enough. Attacking players will loose the ball a lot look at mahrez last season, they get paid to take risks when they come off they look good. I think you may be to used to watching hazard who rarely loosed a ball for a winger. Willian showed he was good enough last year. And Moses although may not be good enough for first team would be a a good back up on the wing he has pace power and directness, adding something different to the mix. I Do agree with you however about the likes of youth teams in France and England focusing way too much on physicality.

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{Ed001's Note - Moses is terrible, he is not good enough for the Prem at all. Willian just works hard, but his quality is non-existent. He showed nothing to convince me he was good enough last season, that is why the team struggled as he was as good as you had.}

31 Jul 2016 12:57:31
Clark it depends who we compare Willian to? , yes he runs a lot and scored a few free kicks last season, do we base it on stats? Goals and assists? , or pass completion? Or key passes? , or how far he runs? , I always compare Chelsea's players and new signings to the best in Europe, so would Willian get into bayerns team? , Barcelona team? , Real Madrid team? , . uhm no! , and that is six wingers / wide forwards in 3 teams, so if we compare him to the best he's not even close, if we compare him to mid table or lower teams yeah you would choose him, says it all really how you view Chelsea? , as a top top team or mediocre? , you decide that first then you decide if players are good enough or not, I can't lie or put the blinkers on sorry,

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31 Jul 2016 14:22:31
Some really interesting posts regarding this topic I personally think the club has been confused with the direction it wants/ wanted to take for some time now.

We used to be a beast of a team with the likes of Terry, Lampard, Ballack and Drogba to name a few it was like Men (us) vs boys (opponent) a lot of the time.

I'd much rather we go back to physicality rather than the failed Barcelona style.

Ed001 really appreciate your input btw.

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{Ed001's Note - thank you mate.}

31 Jul 2016 14:29:39
Willian is awful his movement his free kicks, corners he is the most frustrating player for me. Right back gets forward and Willian runs towards him instead of getting in space. I really hope conte plays a high pressing game. Not this stand off stuff mourinho played.

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31 Jul 2016 14:52:09
Cracking post that Ed! Only think Courtois, Azpilicueta, Zouma, Kante, Hazard and Costa are on a certain level we need to be competing. And it looks like we could lose Costa. Makes me wonder why we never just splashed out the 30 million on Luke Shaw I think he's going to have a big season, and 30 million for a left back for ten years of his quality is nothing in today's market. Buying average players like Lukaku won't help, I'd rather we just do the best with what we've got and wait until quality players become available. Loftus-Cheek needs a loan until he can improve his work ethic he shouldn't be considered. I've been very impressed by both Aina and Chalobah in particular who I feel could be in for his chance at last. Fabregas as much as he's fantastic on the ball when he isn't it's like playing with ten men. He's too slow and can't defend. Oh what i'd do to see a Lampard in midfield again now. No English heroes in the side now apart from Terry who shouldn't be starting in all honestly. For me Begovic, Ivanovic, Cahill, Baba, Mikel, Moses, Marin, Oscar, Willian, Remy and Bamford should be close to the exit door for a start. Think Cesc and Matic won't be far away either.

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31 Jul 2016 15:25:20
Football fans so fickle one minute you need to play youngsters next there not good enough after playing a poor game and we need to spend millions on more players. Me included lol.

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31 Jul 2016 15:27:46
I don't think it's fair on fabregas, he is not a defensive mid or a workhorse box to box, he is an elegant classy technically gifted, plays with his brain has great vision, midfielder, it's us that don't suit fabregas not him not suiting us, he is immense if a team has 65-70 % possesion really world class, but if we counter attack it's not his game, we could of signed Xavi or inesta instead of fabregas and they also would not tackle, or be box to box or win big headers, they are quality players, I honestly don't know why Chelsea singed fabregas toplay out of position, it's as simple as this you wouldn't take a sports car up a mountain, you. Would take a off road 4x 4 specially for the drive, he is a world class specialist midfielder in a possesion based team, all big teams have these players . tiagho Alcantre, inesta, Modric, etc, etc.

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31 Jul 2016 16:12:01
If our squad depth and quality is really that bad then the likes of United, Liverpool, Spurs, Leicester etc must be really worried themselves over the state of theirs!

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31 Jul 2016 16:07:58
Fair point ed, yet Chelsea dominated English football and was competitive in Europe with plenty of players in those positions that wouldn't of made it into those mentioned teams. Kalou, malouda, duff, Cole etc but if they suit the balance of the team that's when you get success .

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{Ed001's Note - that was due to them only being a small part of those sides. By the way Duff was quality at one time, before injuries robbed him of his movement. Now you are almost entirely lacking in quality, it is 9 workhorses plus Cesc and Hazard. Cesc is too lazy and Hazard, great though he is, cannot win every game singlehandedly. The balance between quality and workhorses has gone too far towards workhorses. You just need to add a bit more quality again. I am sure that is the aim, but the scouting and recruitment at the club has been failing to identify the right players in recent years, so there is an issue.}

31 Jul 2016 16:53:35
This is the neutral point of view I wanted earlier, a Honest unemotional review of our squad, I'm big enough to stand up and say we are miles behind, we need 5 new starting players, it's really scary all the money we wasted on squad rotation crapy players, the funny thing is in a years time when conte gets the sack for the team being rubbish, will anybody blame the players and sack them instead, I doubt it, what will it take for the club to realise most of the players are not good enough?

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31 Jul 2016 17:43:13
Cat - you can use that logic for any Manager that is sacked. The players vs Manager logic is applicable for every clubs, mores those clubs that want to be challenging for things.

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31 Jul 2016 18:00:17
Let's say for talking sake we went out and spent on these superstars that every1 wants in who's to say they would come in and be good they could come over to England and not settle in this country adjust to league and flop like di maria did at utd the other year we would then be stuck with these players as no1 would want them would use all be on here nxt summer saying we should then go out and buy even more superstars in my opinion am more than happy with the business we have done compared to other teams would rather kante over xhaka at round about same price don't think pogba is worth the 100+million and city's signings apart from gundogan but 2 injury prone aren't that impressive a really do think we are going 2 have a good season.

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31 Jul 2016 18:02:32
Yes Steve b, us and Real Madrid more so than others, i just think this group of players in the last 8 months have been managed by mourinho, hiddink, and now conte if things don't go right under conte, surely we should look at the players not the manager? , you could make an argument that the 3 managers we've had in 8/ 9 months are all world class, so if all 3 fail what does that say?, about the players . Come on i don't need a 50/ 50 or phone a friend on this.

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31 Jul 2016 18:16:18
Minorm I don't think you should look to much into who other teams have signed or how much they are paying for players, just look at Chelsea's starting 11 and see how we could improve what positions, look at our own team see who is or isn't pulling there weight, find the reason we finished 10 th and put it right internally, then we can look at other teams signings and how much they paid for them.

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31 Jul 2016 19:42:53
Cat you said we should be shopping with the big teams and not likes of Everton so that's why a gave the other teams signings and my views and kante will go staight in to start g 11 and batshuyi in my opinion will be an improvement on having falcao pato and remy to fall back on I also agree with what you're saying we do have to get rid of some of the players matic and Oscar would be 1st out for me.

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31 Jul 2016 19:56:46
Minorm I agree with you I like the look of batshuyi, squad improvement yes maybe not starting 11 improvement yet, but Kante yes should definitely be starting 11 upgrade, all I ment when saying don't worry about other teams is this is only an example not necessarily what I want but if the club really wants morata or any other player just go for it get the deals done, don't look at how much other players Cost other teams, just pay the money to secure players for us.

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31 Jul 2016 20:13:02
I agree should pay the price if that's who we want a would prefer Icardi more than any1 for up top as of defence a can't comment on Napoli guy as I haven't seen him play to pass judgment.

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31 Jul 2016 20:27:06
I have honestly never seen iCardi play, how good is he? , what type of striker is he typical 6"2 striker or technically good lower centre of gravity augero mould?

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31 Jul 2016 21:32:02
Ave only seen him play 7 or 8 times but what I have seen is he quick can run in behind or compete in air can use both feet and good in air the only thing a would say is not as good is his link up play but a reckon that will come.

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01 aug 2016 11:15:14
all we've done is signed players to swell the squad. far too many not good enough players signed. we've not gone after or we have but failed to secure them world class players.

not good enough for chelsea:

begovic, blackman.
ivanovic, cahill, terry, rahman, miazga, djoibidji, hector
oscar, fabregas, willian, moses, mikel, pedro, atsu, marin, .
remy, bamford,


thats a whole new squad!

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03 Aug 2016 08:13:59
This has been a fantastic topic, and very interesting observations from lots of posters. I really appreciate Ed001's comments as they're totally unbiased and he's not looking through blue glasses like most of us. I think quality footballers now are like houses, today is the cheapest they will be, tommorrow the price rises. If you want that "star" today buy him as tommorrow he will cost more, its market driven and the price will not come down in the future.
Cat, I really get what you're trying to say and CFCAdam I agree totally with the exception of Begovic who I think has done a great job when called upon. So here's my two cents worth!
Quality players always seem to have time. JT, although I think he's now past it, was never quick but always in the right position as he read the game. Oscar and Willian, whilst not doubting their commitment, are always endlessly running around like a chook with it's head cut off. Some call it effort, I feel it's a lack of a football brain and that can't be taught. I think (as Ed001 pointed out) we are better to focus on a high quality starting 11. Forget squad players who will always be only that (Remy springs to mind) and leave a clear pathway for the acadamy players to learn to challenge for a spot and then take advantage when given an opportunity. The striking position springs to mind here, Costa out, Remy and Falcau injured and Traore gets a chance, and in my mind took it. Then all of a sudden Remy (a squad player) is back and Traore is back to number 3, where's the incentive for him?
Sir Alex did this at Man U in the 90's, buy high quality for the starting 11 then challenge the youngsters at the club to match and pressure them. Worked out rather well for them I feel at the time. So cut the "squad players" out of the equation and give the opportunity for the younger ones to actually have a pathway to possible first team football if they're good and dedicated enough. Realistically most won't, but some will and they'll be worth it. Is this not the actual reason for having an acadamy?

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31 Jul 2016 07:53:24
i really want Oscar, Willian gone. I can't stand either of them the way they slow our play down. Aina even struggled because of these two!

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31 Jul 2016 08:19:59
Who should we replace with them two?

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31 Jul 2016 08:30:04
Our squad is so over-rated so many poor average players they need to. Begovic, Ivanovic, Cahill and Mikel are the main ones who need to go. We need Koulibaly ASAP.

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31 Jul 2016 09:06:48
Oscar, Pedro, Remy, Mikel would be my first to go.

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31 Jul 2016 14:31:25
Willian Oscar mikel ivanovic begovic Moses remy all need to be gone. Look at Brazil national team, tells you all about Willian and Oscar.

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31 Jul 2016 06:11:31
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31 Jul 2016 05:32:03
Interesting words from conte published on Chelsea website 'Today Costa is Chelsea's player. Tomorrow if you ask me if Costa will remain with us, I don't know. ' athletico did sign a striker yesterday which seems odd however. Maybe they will offer us Torres in part exchange!

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31 Jul 2016 00:51:17
Is there any particular reason Kenedy hasn't been playing and I'm just oblivious? I see him in photos from training but he hasn't played in the us yet.

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31 Jul 2016 03:26:39
I'm wondering this myself, hoping he's going to stay around the first team this year. Do you have any info on him Ed?

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{Ed001's Note - was he not in a tournament over the summer? I honestly can't remember off the top of my head, but I thought he was one of those given an extra couple of weeks after playing at some level in the summer, so he is just a bit behind on fitness. I haven't heard anything mentioned about him to say anything else.}

31 Jul 2016 08:04:58
Thought he was injured?

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31 Jul 2016 09:58:54
He played in Austria I believe, not sure why he hasn't had any game time in the US. Maybe he's going to the olympics?

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